
As new FC Cincinnati designated player Aaron Boupendza is getting acclimated to the club and city, the forward he replaced on the roster is doing the same in Europe.
Brenner Souza da Silva played his last match for FCC on May 6 – much sooner than anticipated ahead of his July 2 transfer to Udinese – but he’s back to work getting ready for his first Italian Serie A season. Although he’s moved on and is now in the midst of preseason with Udinese, he took time to reflect on his two-and-a-half years with FC Cincinnati.
Brenner gave Queen City Press an exclusive interview via Zoom to discuss his time in Cincinnati, the move to Udinese and how he is settling into his new environment. A personal representative who speaks English and Portuguese helped interpret questions and answers during the 30-minute interview, and a translation service provided a full transcript for exact quotes.
The Brazilian forward had not spoken to local media since October.
‘Getting milk from a stone’
It was no secret Brenner was hoping for a move to Europe, as he had previously shared that as a personal goal he was working to achieve, but he said he grew to enjoy playing with the Orange and Blue.
COVID isolation, cultural adjustments and a league-worst team finish led Brenner to search for an exit after his first season in America in 2021.
However, the opportunity to compete in a top 5 league – and in a country where his family could more easily visit – ultimately was what had been driving him, and he expressed gratitude to FCC for giving him the platform to achieve his dream.
“The club has opened the door to many good things in my life,” Brenner said. “They’ve given me the opportunity to develop my career in America. Of course, things were not 100 percent as I expected at first, but in the end, thank God, everything worked out. But I am very grateful to the League, which is growing more and more. I hope to return to MLS one day, because overall I did enjoy playing in the MLS, and that made me very happy.”
It was time for the club to move on, as well. A $13 million investment into acquiring Brenner from São Paulo in 2021 had been hanging over FC Cincinnati’s front office, and an impressive 2022 season in which Brenner tallied 18 goals over the final 20 matches gave FCC the chance to recoup most of that while Brenner got his wish to move on.
His departure also meant an open designated player spot for general manager Chris Albright to use on a player he personally recruited, as first-place FCC continues to push for a Supporters Shield and the club’s first trophies in MLS.
FC Cincinnati sold Brenner to Udinese for $11 million and still has an invested interest in his future as the deal included $1 million worth of performance-based incentives and a 5 percent sell-on fee. Brenner signed a five-year contract, similar to the one he had with FCC, where he used up a young designated player spot.
“I wanted to come to Europe for professional and personal reasons as well,” Brenner said. “There are things like here (in Italy) I can receive my family without the need of a visa. In America, I didn’t have so many opportunities to do that. But Udinese is a big club and when the opportunity came up, I didn’t think twice about accepting the offer.”
Brenner had his share of ups and downs with Cincinnati, and his abrupt, early exit following an ankle injury wasn’t how anyone planned for him to depart the club, but he said the overall experience was a positive one because of the fans and what he was able to do to help the team.
Last year during his second season, Brenner played a key role in FC Cincinnati’s turnaround from three last-place finishes to the club’s first MLS Cup Playoffs appearance and first-round win. He made his mark with 24 total goal contributions, and his first three career hat tricks are something he said he still cherishes. The game balls he collected for those went straight to his mother, who displays them in her home in Brazil.
The 23-year-old went from not wanting to return after a rocky first season to overcoming skepticism with the new coaching staff and meeting his own personal performance expectations. He said he enjoyed playing for coach Pat Noonan and with his teammates, even if those things maybe weren’t obvious to those on the outside at the end.
“There’s a very famous expression in Brazil that says: ‘I got milk from a stone,’” Brenner said. “In other words, I’ve got the good out of the bad. Of course, the team improved, but it was difficult in the beginning because I had spent nine months alone in a new country, in a new language, new culture, and leaving Brazil as one of the best players there, going to a place that promised me to give all the support, which in the first year it was not true. But thank God, in the second half of the second year I was able to find myself mentally. I was more adapted, I could already communicate better and I needed that for something good to happen. And I also really wanted to show to fans and the ownership what I was capable of doing.”
That breakout second season opened the door to Europe, and FC Cincinnati helped him get there – just not as quickly as he anticipated. Circumstances around getting that transfer done perhaps tainted his final months with the club.
A dream opportunity had knocked before and concerns it would pass him by again put Brenner in a “bad place,” he said. Ultimately, he had a small impact on the team in 2023 because of how little he was available amid the transfer negotiations and after the deal was finalized. When he was on the pitch, however, Brenner’s quality still showed. He had the lone goal in a 1-0 win against Seattle on March 11, and FC Cincinnati was hoping for a lot more of that.
Brenner said he just wasn’t able to focus like he wanted.
Behind the transfer process
FCC originally had sold Brenner on the idea of coming to Major League Soccer as a stepping stone to his goals of playing in a top 5 league.
During a breakout 2020-21 season with Brazilian Serie A side São Paulo FC, when Brenner scored 22 goals in 44 matches across all competitions, he had drawn interest from the likes of Ajax, Arsenal and other clubs in Europe.
However, the COVID-19 pandemic created uncertainty in the global market, and at one point it had been reported São Paulo was seeking upward of $18 million for Brenner.
Cincinnati acquired him for $13 million — the fourth largest transfer fee paid in MLS history — in February 2021, under then-general manager Gerard Nijkamp. The fee drew eyeballs around the league, but FCC had struggled in its first two seasons in MLS and needed a splash signing. The fee ultimately became a barrier for Brenner to get to his preferred destination.
Brenner’s performance last year once again drew a spotlight on the young forward, but the club had declined three other offers in the winter.
According to sources, Eredivisie club PSV Eindhoven offered $6 million in December; Udinese had offered around $9 million for him in mid-January; and right before the European windows closed, English Premier League club Nottingham Forest submitted a loan request that included a triggerable purchase option for a permanent transfer at a fee of $11.5 million, plus $2 million in add-ons and a 15 percent sell-on.
Brenner had begged Albright in text messages in January to help him get his dream move and felt like he never got an explanation why the club couldn’t make it happen then.
“FC Cincinnati didn’t explain anything to me, and they didn’t ask me how I was feeling about it,” Brenner said. “The communication was horrible and had a lot of negative reactions from all parties. That was something that really upset me. I believe it was a great opportunity that I missed, but then, thank God, another opportunity came along.”

Albright said the Nottingham Forest offer, which on paper was the best one, simply wasn’t going anywhere, but ownership at that time also wanted to get back more of its investment.
“He wasn’t going to qualify for the points, they were frankly non-responsive when we went back with a counter that was certainly in range to be countered and they were non-responsive because the deal never really had legs,” Albright said. “At the time, I was trying to negotiate what I thought was a fair fee from a Premier League club, and it just went nowhere. I think the idea of those frustrations at the time weren’t grounded in anything factual.”
Based on the Governing Body Endorsements points required for a visa in England, Brenner would not have qualified at the time, but he has been working to get his Italian passport, which he qualifies for based on his ancestry, and that would have made him eligible. Another potential issue for FCC was that a loan wouldn’t have freed up a DP spot.
Those negotiations broke down right before the transfer window in England closed, and a couple days after that, Brenner went back to Brazil, frustrated and needing time to clear his mind. FCC was about to get a short break in preseason anyway, but he arrived back home to find a family emergency and ended up staying longer than expected.
Brenner said he was surprised FCC had “refused an offer that for many was undeniable,” and he “was no longer 100 percent focused” after that. His relationship with Albright took a big hit, and that impacted his trust in the club’s ability to manage a transfer.
The two had gotten off on the wrong foot, Brenner said, because when Albright arrived in October 2021, he already had lost confidence in the club based on a shortcoming of expectations his first season. The same could be said of his start with the new coaching staff Albright hired in December 2021, but while Brenner came to trust Noonan and his assistants, he and Albright never came eye to eye.
“I didn’t have a good relationship with him, that’s true, due to many moments of frustrations on both sides and mainly the lack of communication and lack of understanding,” Brenner said. “But I think that was more from his side, because he is the general manager and I am an athlete. At times things went beyond the limits of ethics and education. But that’s part of it, it’s all learning on my side, as well as it was for him. It was his first time in a position like that, so, it’s normal that sometimes you end up making decisions that can frustrate some athletes. But the communication wasn’t so good, the relationship wasn’t either. The rest of the staff, I had a good relationship.”
Albright said his relationship with the players and the club’s environment now “speaks for itself,” but noted that Brenner is a different type of player.
“I think that we ask basic things from our players that are basic habits of a professional athlete that wants to work in an environment where there’s success, just basic standards that frankly, I don’t believe were here before we arrived, that sort of general accountability,” Albright said. “And, I would say if you come and watch training and look at the general disposition of the guys on the field right now, it’s just different than Brenner and it always was.
“I wish him the best. I hope he is able to go on and have success, but there are other players, Brandon (Vazquez) specifically, that has been linked with moves to Europe that we don’t feel the timing is right, and I continue to have a good relationship with Brandon. Sometimes as the GM, yes, you have to be the bad guy because you are making decisions not just to win on Saturday but for the long-term goals of the organization. So, when you are the guy doing contracts and doing transfers, you are not always going to be well-liked at all times, but I think I always try to approach my job, and I have these conversations with players as a player because I was a former player, so the conversation with Brenner was ‘I get it, you can be frustrated, you can be mad at me because I would understand that from a player’s side.’ I don’t walk into those conversations blindly and go, ‘man I have no idea what it’s like to be on the other side of that table’ and I think that’s part of the reason we have a good environment and I think a lot of the guys would say that is our communication is one of our better qualities, to be fair.”
Brenner admitted he’s “a bit complicated” sometimes, but said he never had bad intentions. He wore his emotions on his sleeves and it was easy to see when he wasn’t happy, and he still felt like his teammates and coaches understood him for the most part.
FCC has been trying to turn over its roster to fit Albright’s vision and a culture he often has described as being centered on selfless teammates. Brenner, known as somewhat of an introvert, perhaps because of language barriers at first, was often seen as a drummer moving to his own beat. He didn’t hide his frustrations, which were plenty when he was dealing with external factors, and this season, that may have impacted his performance more than it would have otherwise.
Brenner had to work his way back into the starting lineup after missing the final two-plus weeks of preseason, and once he was getting more minutes, he often would leave games visibly frustrated. At times that was because he thought he could have played better but also because he felt like no matter how well he was playing, he was always the first forward subbed out of the games.
Had he been given the chance to play deeper into games, Brenner said he felt he could have helped the team more and generated an even greater offer for the club.
When Udinese came back with a new offer in April, Brenner said he felt he needed to gain some control of the situation to ensure FCC took the proposal into serious consideration. On April 12, he told the club he was not going to train until there was some clarity with Udinese’s offer, which by that point had been lingering for some time.
“It was horrible because I kept wondering if it was going to be another moment of frustration when I couldn’t leave or if I was going to have to re-adapt again to try to play and develop better for the city, for the fans, but it was a very bad period in my life,” Brenner said.
After two days of not training, FCC verbally agreed to the deal, but Udinese wasn’t able to bring Brenner to its facility until the following weekend to complete the physical and five-year contract. FCC wanted him to resume playing, but Brenner didn’t want to risk an injury ruining the deal, and it’s not unusual for players to be held out amid a transfer agreement being completed.
“He’s a very talented kid that could have helped, so whatever he felt like that statement was to me, there’s 30 guys going, ‘Look, we could use you on Wednesday. We could use you on Saturday,’” Albright said. “So as a player you have to be OK with that sort of behavior and your teammates being disappointed.”
By the time Brenner returned, he had missed four matches, and the team’s attacking prowess clearly was impacted by his lack of availability in the first few months of the season. His forward partner, Brandon Vazquez, was drawing more attention from defenders, and Luciano Acosta’s assist production took a hit initially, but the defense stepped up and the goals started coming from unexpected places while Acosta eventually took on more of the scoring burden. All the while, FC Cincinnati climbed to the top of the MLS table, and there, it has remained.
The Orange and Blue used Brenner as a second-half sub the next game he was available, May 6 against D.C. United, with plans to build him back up and potentially earn more minutes amid a busy schedule. He came off the bench, to a loud applause, for the final 25 minutes and started a chain of passes that led to Alvaro Barreal’s goal, which proved to be the game winner in a 2-1 victory.
However, Lewis O’Brien’s slide tackle for a bad foul took Brenner out late in the game with an ankle injury and that ended his time on the pitch with FCC. Brenner had planned to play his last match June 3 at home against Chicago, though the club wanted him to stay through July 1.

“The truth is many people thought I shouldn’t even play anymore as soon as I signed with Udinese, but out of respect for the coach, the team and the fans, I said I was just going to leave a month early for physiological reasons,” Brenner said, referring to his desire to give his body a break from playing since he otherwise wouldn’t get one until next summer. “So, I was going to play a few more games. Fortunately, before entering the game, I received that support from the fans and that gave me a boost again feeling very motivated. I felt that I had made the right decision, but unfortunately, at the end of the game, I got hurt, where I ran a great risk of needing surgery and I ended up receiving very little consideration from the club after that. So, I felt uncomfortable with the situation and decided to return to Brazil to take care of myself with my own doctors.”
Albright declined to comment on the circumstances leading to Brenner’s early departure.
Immediately after the game, the medical staff and trainers believed Brenner’s ankle injury wasn’t too serious, as Noonan described in his postgame press conference that he was expected to be “fine.” Brenner underwent an MRI and received treatment at the club’s facility at Mercy Health Training Center, but after two weeks out of training, he met with co-CEO Jeff Berding to discuss an early departure so he could return to Brazil.
Later that night, FCC beat rival Columbus Crew 3-2 at TQL Stadium.
The club agreed to release him early without pay. Brenner finished the season with one goal in six starts and eight appearances.
‘You aren’t playing tennis’
While Brenner had many different motivations driving him to his transfer, he’s not the only FC Cincinnati player drawing interest from clubs in bigger leagues. His situation was unique for FCC because despite the massive transfer fee, ownership originally believed a profit could be made and at least wanted to break even on a sale of Brenner.
At the same time, Brenner had no say in what São Paulo charged or what FCC was willing to pay for him, and he continually put pressure on himself to try to score goals to help drive up his value with the belief that’s what he had to do to get his transfer.
Albright said he wished Brenner would have been a little more patient with the process. It’s the same thing he’s asking of Vazquez, amid interest from clubs like Borussia Mönchengladbach, and of others like Barreal, who drew a couple offers from Eredivisie clubs in the Netherlands this past winter.
“We sold Brenden (Aaronson) at the right time and now he’s with Leeds (on loan at Union Berlin); we sold Mark McKenzie to Belgium and he’s flourishing,” Albright said, referring to two players he helped move while technical director for the Philadelphia Union, prior to his hire with FCC. “We’ve done this before, and with Brandon and Alvaros and all of these guys’ cases, they show up every day and be an awesome teammate.
“In the end, your career is going to be measured by how much you win and what kind of person you are to the people that are counting on you, and to those guys’ credit, they come in and do that every day. That’s being a professional because again, you aren’t playing tennis. You have 10 other guys out there that are counting on you to be responsible. They continue to do that every day. We are in a unique position where we can go win a thing or two and I think those guys understand they are part of that, and they want to be part of that, so at the right time, we will make a decision to when that right time is, but right now, we have greater goals as a club. Our fans and owners want that. Those guys are bought into that process, and that’s important.”
An agent of another starter for FC Cincinnati said he’s not worried about the club potentially holding his client back, noting “a good relationship with the club” and specifically with Albright. Vazquez has expressed an understanding of that process in interviews he’s done on the topic as well.
Brenner said he managed the situation in a way he would have understood if it was one of his teammates going through a similar transfer process. He also said he learned some things along the way and believed the club did too.
Noonan said that was indeed the case.
“Just the challenges of the length, in terms of when the conversation started about a potential transfer to when it actually happens, and how you manage players in those moments, because it’s not easy,” Noonan said in April. “You know, we expect players because they’re top talents and pros to be able to handle it without any distractions. That’s hard, I think. You know, in Brenner’s case, he did a lot of things well in the process, he probably learned some things too, as did we, about how to best navigate it so you can focus on, you know, what your job is, and that’s to be available for your club, and when the time is right you’re gonna move on. Until that time happens, you’ve got to find ways to be present, and help your team because, you know, as a coach, you have to find ways to have good conversations to make sure they’re in the right mental space to be a good team player and help your team win games.”
FCC didn’t have to consider what it paid for other players on the roster, though, including those acquired under Nijkamp’s regime.
Barreal came to Cincinnati from Velez in Argentina on about a $1.6 million fee, Vazquez was acquired for $150,000 in allocation money during Nashville SC’s expansion draft ahead of the 2020 season, and even MVP candidate Acosta only cost $3.2 million to pick him up from Atlas FC.
Albright signed his first two DPs for a combined $10.5 million – Obinna Nwobodo came from Gotzepe in Turkey for $3.5 million and Boupendza was acquired for $7 million to Saudi Arabia’s Al-Shabab. Brenner ended up costing more than $13 million with the performance-based incentives he met.
“FCC bought him for $13 million,” Albright said. “When he wanted to leave the first time (last April), we had an offer for basically a free loan with a $5 million option. That was effectively the valuation when we arrived, so there’s X millions of dollars down the drain. It was our job to rehabilitate the player, the asset, to recoup a lot of what we paid, so that was an ongoing process, that there was some level of buy-in because he scored (18) goals and helped us win some games and we were able to get his valuation back. He’s a complicated kid, as he admitted, but I hope some of that changes with maturity. I was immature when I was playing at 22 as well. It’s not like I can’t relate to not seeing the big picture, I get it. Again, I wish him the best. He will be part of the FC Cincinnati story and that’s a good thing. He helped us kind of get this thing on track so I am grateful for that.”
Things might have been different
Brenner said things might have ended differently in Cincinnati had his first season gone better.
A four-win 2021 campaign was tough on everyone, but that especially was the case for Brenner as he tried to adjust to being in a foreign country for the first time without support from his family as a 21-year-old. He also felt the club could have done more to help him, which FCC did address the next season hiring a Player Welfare Coordinator who speaks multiple languages, including Brenner’s native Portuguese.
The pandemic and more stringent visa process made it impossible for his family to visit while he was homesick, at no fault of the club’s, but the team’s struggles on the pitch, en route to a third straight last-place finish, just made the situation even less enjoyable. He wasn’t the only player stomping off the pitch in frustration at the end of games then.
On top of that, Brenner wasn’t satisfied with his own performances. He scored in his debut but finished with just eight goals that first season when he felt he could have done more.
“We as foreign athletes always have the adaptation phase to go through,” Brenner said. “I had to learn to do a lot of things on my own for the first time, things that nobody knows, but I had to cook my own food, I also had to take care of my private things back at home (in Brazil). In Brazil, I always had the support of someone to keep me always focused on soccer. And also the phase of me not understanding things very well, it was another culture, other things that I didn’t understand, and I didn’t understand much what soccer was in America. Of course, the first year was very difficult for me, so much that in the first year I was thinking about not coming back from vacation, but thank God I came back and I was able to find myself again.”
FCC made changes in the front office and technical staff, hiring Albright that October and Noonan that December with the belief their success with the Philadelphia Union would translate to better results on the pitch for the Orange and Blue. And it did, but, before Brenner could even get to know either one, he already was wanting to leave.
His second season ended well, but got off to a slow start after he missed the entire preseason waiting on green card papers in Brazil through a slow governmental process. It was something the club needed to free up an international spot that could be used on a new player or traded for valuable allocation money as Albright was trying to get the roster in a more manageable place, but the green card process took longer than anyone expected.
The missed preseason set Brenner back in getting ready with his team, and he returned to Cincinnati the week ahead of the 2022 opener still feeling what he described as skepticism toward the club. He soon had his agent, Giuliano Bertolucci, seeking transfer options for him, and in April 2022, FCC declined a loan offer with a purchase option from Brazil’s SC Internacional because it didn’t meet the club’s valuation, as Albright confirmed.
It took some time before Brenner gained confidence in Noonan, but Noonan eventually was able to get the most out of a clearly talented player that made the team better on the pitch.
“I think at the beginning we didn’t understand each other well, Pat and I, because he had just arrived and I didn’t have that much confidence in the club, so it was difficult to relate,” Brenner said. “But as time went by, we started to build a good communication, and he started to understand how I was, and I started to respect his work a lot. He is a great coach. We began to understand that we could trust each other after a while, and I only have to thank him for that. I only have to thank him because he has always remained very professional and very ethical with me, that’s why I have a lot of respect for him.”
In his fifth start of the season, on June 24, 2022, Brenner scored his first goal. The next game he registered his first career hat trick – and he went on to collect two more during his remarkable stretch to end the year.
He was part of one of the most exciting attacking trios in the league, along with Vazquez also scoring 18 goals and Acosta contributing 10 goals and 19 assists, and FCC benefited with a fifth-place finish in the Eastern Conference.
Brenner wondered what more he could done with a quicker start to the season, but left for the offseason following a second-round playoff exit feeling confident he had taken a big step toward his goal of playing in Europe. And the club already was preparing for his likely departure this season.
On to the next chapter
Ideally, Brenner would have played more games, gotten his transfer without sitting out and closed his time with FCC to a farewell from the club and fans at TQL Stadium – either June 3 against Chicago, as he wanted, or July 1 against New England on the day before his transfer became official.
Instead, the last game he attended, May 20 against Columbus Crew, was from the stands. He had hoped for a chance to say goodbye to the fans during pre-game or halftime, but the club was not able to accommodate his request on short notice. He had met with Berding that morning to discuss his return to Brazil.
The player said his goodbyes to the team the next day before training and was on a plane home three days later.

Brenner rehabbed his ankle with the Brazilian national team doctor overseeing his care, and about a month ago, he resumed more strenuous activities as he worked to get ready for preseason with Udinese. He made the move to Italy in two separate trips ahead of the start of training July 10 in Udine, and he started a friendly against Rappresentativa Carnica on July 16 before the squad departed for camp in Austria, where Udinese is playing four preseason games.
“The injury had impacted a lot in my conditioning, and I’ve had to face a long rehab process back at home,” Brenner said. “I had to stay almost a month and a half without being able to do things for medical reasons. And in the last few weeks I’ve finally started to move my body. Now that I arrived here at the new club I’m trying to get better physically and I believe that everything is fine and things only tend to improve for me, to get better and better.”
Brenner, who has started the second half of the first two friendlies in Austria, said he grew up watching Italian Serie A games on TV (which are shown all the time in Brazil) with his father and grandfather, so the idea of playing in Italy was always high on his list. His father played professionally for a small club in the country, as well, and Brenner is eligible for an Italian passport through his mother’s side of the family.
Udinese also shares the same ownership as English Championship League club Watford, so there’s potential to move on to England, but Brenner is focused on being able to “grow and achieve greater things” in Serie A as he looks to further develop his career.
And so far, his transition is going well.
“Here it’s more relaxed, because I can understand and communicate a little in English and also because most of the staff speak Spanish in the club,” Brenner said, noting he has picked up Spanish over the years and continues learning English. “Italian itself is a bit similar to Portuguese, so little by little I’m feeling more comfortable here.”
Udinese plays RB Leipzig, which finished third in the German Bundesliga last season, in a preseason friendly Tuesday in Austria. His season officially kicks off Aug. 20 against Juventus.
Although Brenner found his time in Cincinnati to be an emotional rollercoaster, it helped prepare him, and he wanted the fans to know how much he appreciated their support along the way. Brenner tried to convey as much through a “goodbye” message on social media, even though he isn’t very active on Twitter or Instagram, but he said he felt like that wasn’t enough.
“I just have to thank them because they’ve always been very kind to me since I’ve arrived and I’ve been able to give them some moments of joy and gratitude,” Brenner said. “These are the people that I will carry forever in my heart and I will carry forever in my memories. I thank Cincy.”
Brenner said he still communicates with some of his teammates in a group chat and individually and follows news of the team. He isn’t surprised to see how well the Orange and Blue have been playing all season long, even when he wasn’t on the field and could have been.
He said he is “cheering very hard for them to win it all this year.”
“I’m not surprised at all because I already knew the work that was put in, so I already knew that the team was creating a consistency that takes time for a team to stay at the top,” Brenner said. “But I believe that the players who are taking my place are doing a great job. They were training well while I was there, so I already knew that was going to happen. Of course, I understand I could’ve helped a lot if I had stayed, but I also give credit to those that are there now doing very well and I wish them the best.”
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